Task declaration validity with 302 for US state records

I have a flight that qualifies for numerous Oregon state free distance records, and declared records if my declaration is valid. I'm trying to figure out if my electronic declaration is valid. I did not do a paper declaration. Please no comments about paper declarations in this post please.
I have contacted my SSA representative by email and am waiting to hear back.. I got an auto response saying they will be back from vacation on the 4th, but would like to get some sort of answer before that.

This is the first season with a 302 and Oudie/ConnectMe and electronic only declaration. I don't want to do paper declarations, I bought this electronic crap for a reason! There are people that do it this way sucessfully and I want to become one of those people.

Issue #1:
I sent the task to my 302 on the 28th, and flew the task on the 30th. I did not send the task again to the 302 on the 30th. Is the "declaration" also valid on the 30th? I did not send a different task or change the task between the 28th and the 30th.

Issue #2:
I sent the task to the 302 using ConnectMe. For whatever reason I could not get the N-number in the Registration field, it would not take any characters at all in that field for some reason. I tried about 5,000 times... I did put both the N-number and the contest number in the "competition" field.. That information shows up in the respected fields when the 302 IGC file is imported into Seeyou.

All of the required information is in the task declaration somewhere, the task was completed, do I have a valid Oregon State declared record?

Doing this from memory without looking up the FAI stuff...

The last declaration, regardless of the date, is the one that is legal for the task flown. You should be fine.

Either the N number, or the aircraft serial number, must be included in the declaration. Contest numbers are not acceptable for FAI tasks. Some Cambridge recorders run out of characters on various lines, but if the N number OR the aircraft serial number is present, that is acceptable...

Linwood Stevenson
TN Record Keeper

You should be fine. One point of caution however... there are many cases where there are slight (but important) mis-matches between what software from different manufacturers does with fields like names or serial numbers (i.e how connectme exports to CAI). It's always a good idea to load a declaration, fly some practice flights, then inspect the downloaded IGC file before you are really counting on it.

Also, it's always a good idea to look at the "native" IGC file itself rather than relying on SeeYou to display the results. I've seen a few cases where older IGC recorders have the data slightly bolixed up (but it's there)..

Erik Mann
(formerly SSA Badge and Record Chairman)

On Friday, August 1, 2014 7:08:26 PM UTC-4, Linwood Stevenson wrote:
Doing this from memory without looking up the FAI stuff...



The last declaration, regardless of the date, is the one that is legal for the task flown. You should be fine.



Either the N number, or the aircraft serial number, must be included in the declaration. Contest numbers are not acceptable for FAI tasks. Some Cambridge recorders run out of characters on various lines, but if the N number OR the aircraft serial number is present, that is acceptable...



Linwood Stevenson

TN Record Keeper

This post is only about learning how to use that "electronic crap" to receive credit for a Badge or Record flight and the SSA answer to the question you seem to be asking:
"Q59 Why would I want to make a written declaration when using an FR, and how do I do this?
A. Even experienced FR users have the occasional bad day... and most people find transcription and other errors easier to spot in a document, rather than on a small display screen. When multiple pilots share an FR, there's also the chance that the last pilot's name or the wrong aircraft will appear in YOUR data file. (Not good!) Add to this the fact that it can be difficult at best to check the non-task data lurking in an FR, and many pilots opt to wear a belt and suspenders... by making a written pre-flight declaration..
One caveat: a written declaration is NOT valid for World Records.
Only the last declaration made before take off is valid for any flight, so - to cover all contingencies among different FR models and how they assign declaration times - SSA recommends the following procedure for new FR users, multiple pilots sharing one FR and in any case where the pilot name(s), aircraft information and task entered in the FR cannot be verified as accurate before take off:
1. Pilot & OO complete all pre-flight checks and the task listing on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet
2. Pilot turns the FR ON (enter a task if you like, particularly if the FR is part of a navigation system)
3. Wait 5 minutes
4. Before take off, pilot & OO sign the written declaration, and the OO adds the date & time"
And:
"Q61 Do I need an Official Observer for a flight using an IGC approved FR or GPS Position Recorder? A. YES. The OO's duties are spelled out at Q7, in the Sporting Code and on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet"
Did you have an OO?

On Friday, August 1, 2014 5:08:00 PM UTC-7, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:
This post is only about learning how to use that "electronic crap" to receive credit for a Badge or Record flight and the SSA answer to the question you seem to be asking:

"Q59 Why would I want to make a written declaration when using an FR, and how do I do this?

A. Even experienced FR users have the occasional bad day... and most people find transcription and other errors easier to spot in a document, rather than on a small display screen. When multiple pilots share an FR, there's also the chance that the last pilot's name or the wrong aircraft will appear in YOUR data file. (Not good!) Add to this the fact that it can be difficult at best to check the non-task data lurking in an FR, and many pilots opt to wear a belt and suspenders... by making a written pre-flight declaration.

One caveat: a written declaration is NOT valid for World Records.

Only the last declaration made before take off is valid for any flight, so - to cover all contingencies among different FR models and how they assign declaration times - SSA recommends the following procedure for new FR users, multiple pilots sharing one FR and in any case where the pilot name(s), aircraft information and task entered in the FR cannot be verified as accurate before take off:

1. Pilot & OO complete all pre-flight checks and the task listing on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet

2. Pilot turns the FR ON (enter a task if you like, particularly if the FR is part of a navigation system)

3. Wait 5 minutes

4. Before take off, pilot & OO sign the written declaration, and the OO adds the date & time"

And:

"Q61 Do I need an Official Observer for a flight using an IGC approved FR or GPS Position Recorder? A. YES. The OO's duties are spelled out at Q7, in the Sporting Code and on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet"

Did you have an OO?

Thanks for the quick and informative responses! Yes, I have an OO for the flight, so it seems I may be good. I'll fly a different task Saturday . I agree with all of the advice, should have practiced with the logger more.. I have a new glider this year and there has been a long list that needed to be accomplished aside from task declaration which was low on the list. If the flight counts it will just be a bonus. I finally got around to doing "some practice flights" with a task declared and flew the task second try.. And for any really important flight in the future I will consider using a paper declaration.

Papa3, How do I look at the "native" IGC file information from the 302 file? With the utility software? In SeeYou I am looking at the 302 file, not the file from the Oudie.

Thanks!

On Friday, August 1, 2014 5:41:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 1, 2014 5:08:00 PM UTC-7, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:

This post is only about learning how to use that "electronic crap" to receive credit for a Badge or Record flight and the SSA answer to the question you seem to be asking:



"Q59 Why would I want to make a written declaration when using an FR, and how do I do this?



A. Even experienced FR users have the occasional bad day... and most people find transcription and other errors easier to spot in a document, rather than on a small display screen. When multiple pilots share an FR, there's also the chance that the last pilot's name or the wrong aircraft will appear in YOUR data file. (Not good!) Add to this the fact that it can be difficult at best to check the non-task data lurking in an FR, and many pilots opt to wear a belt and suspenders... by making a written pre-flight declaration.



One caveat: a written declaration is NOT valid for World Records.



Only the last declaration made before take off is valid for any flight, so - to cover all contingencies among different FR models and how they assign declaration times - SSA recommends the following procedure for new FR users, multiple pilots sharing one FR and in any case where the pilot name(s), aircraft information and task entered in the FR cannot be verified as accurate before take off:



1. Pilot & OO complete all pre-flight checks and the task listing on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet



2. Pilot turns the FR ON (enter a task if you like, particularly if the FR is part of a navigation system)



3. Wait 5 minutes



4. Before take off, pilot & OO sign the written declaration, and the OO adds the date & time"



And:



"Q61 Do I need an Official Observer for a flight using an IGC approved FR or GPS Position Recorder? A. YES. The OO's duties are spelled out at Q7, in the Sporting Code and on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet"



Did you have an OO?



Thanks for the quick and informative responses! Yes, I have an OO for the flight, so it seems I may be good. I'll fly a different task Saturday .. I agree with all of the advice, should have practiced with the logger more. I have a new glider this year and there has been a long list that needed to be accomplished aside from task declaration which was low on the list.. If the flight counts it will just be a bonus. I finally got around to doing "some practice flights" with a task declared and flew the task second try. And for any really important flight in the future I will consider using a paper declaration.



Papa3, How do I look at the "native" IGC file information from the 302 file? With the utility software? In SeeYou I am looking at the 302 file, not the file from the Oudie.



Thanks!

Open a copy of the file in a text editor. What is there is all human readable with a little effort. Never mess with your original file, only a copy. Learning how to read teh actual IGC file is the best/only real way to make sure what exactly is there.All the record specs are described in the IGC documentation.

On Friday, August 1, 2014 8:02:40 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Friday, August 1, 2014 5:41:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:

On Friday, August 1, 2014 5:08:00 PM UTC-7, Roy Clark, "B6" wrote:



This post is only about learning how to use that "electronic crap" to receive credit for a Badge or Record flight and the SSA answer to the question you seem to be asking:







"Q59 Why would I want to make a written declaration when using an FR, and how do I do this?







A. Even experienced FR users have the occasional bad day... and most people find transcription and other errors easier to spot in a document, rather than on a small display screen. When multiple pilots share an FR, there's also the chance that the last pilot's name or the wrong aircraft will appear in YOUR data file. (Not good!) Add to this the fact that it can be difficult at best to check the non-task data lurking in an FR, and many pilots opt to wear a belt and suspenders... by making a written pre-flight declaration.







One caveat: a written declaration is NOT valid for World Records.







Only the last declaration made before take off is valid for any flight, so - to cover all contingencies among different FR models and how they assign declaration times - SSA recommends the following procedure for new FR users, multiple pilots sharing one FR and in any case where the pilot name(s), aircraft information and task entered in the FR cannot be verified as accurate before take off:







1. Pilot & OO complete all pre-flight checks and the task listing on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet







2. Pilot turns the FR ON (enter a task if you like, particularly if the FR is part of a navigation system)







3. Wait 5 minutes







4. Before take off, pilot & OO sign the written declaration, and the OO adds the date & time"







And:







"Q61 Do I need an Official Observer for a flight using an IGC approved FR or GPS Position Recorder? A. YES. The OO's duties are spelled out at Q7, in the Sporting Code and on the SSA Badge & Record Worksheet"







Did you have an OO?







Thanks for the quick and informative responses! Yes, I have an OO for the flight, so it seems I may be good. I'll fly a different task Saturday . I agree with all of the advice, should have practiced with the logger more. I have a new glider this year and there has been a long list that needed to be accomplished aside from task declaration which was low on the list. If the flight counts it will just be a bonus. I finally got around to doing "some practice flights" with a task declared and flew the task second try. And for any really important flight in the future I will consider using a paper declaration.







Papa3, How do I look at the "native" IGC file information from the 302 file? With the utility software? In SeeYou I am looking at the 302 file, not the file from the Oudie.







Thanks!



Open a copy of the file in a text editor. What is there is all human readable with a little effort. Never mess with your original file, only a copy. Learning how to read teh actual IGC file is the best/only real way to make sure what exactly is there.All the record specs are described in the IGC documentation.

Thanks Darryl, that was easy. Everything looks in order in the file, the information is correct for PILOT, GLIDERTYPE and GLIDERID.
So it appears that the 302 uses the info for those fields from the data entered by the Cambridge Utility. I guess the sure way for me to do this is to always setup the pilot and glider info in 302 with the Cambridge Utility (already done unless the pilot changes) and then the task info can be entered with ConnectMe or similar.
This may be useful information for those people sharing Oudies, etc. I'm not sure I would rely on ConnectMe to enter new pilot name etc. Anyone else care chime in in this regard feel free. Anyone have sucess entering ALL task information for a new pilot using ConnectMe?

Hello Again,

Having used a 302 in all my record attempts, have some experience with the unit. Uploading a declaration, have had no problems doing it with either the Cambridge utility software via an IPAQ or similar ancient device. Also have uploaded with SeeYouMobile, ConnectMe, and SeeYouMobile on an Oudie. All had no problems with the declaration upload. Occasionally, getting a pilots name, or an N number in was a problem, but if it shows on a line other than what you thought you were entering, thats OK, as long as its in the declaration portion.

However, downloading the raw file from the 302 for record purposes can be problematic. The only software that had no issue in this regard was the 302 utility. Using that, always got a good file for records and OLC. However, if downloaded with SeeYouMobile or other software, always seemed to get the dreaded "invalid file" message from OLC, or a bad file security check when running the security checks that are required. If that happened, the 302 has retained the original file, and I always went back (or had the OO do it) and use only the Cambridge utility for another download of the same file.

Hope this helps some...

Linwood